2007 APS/ASPET Mentoring Workshop

Q: What should a graduate student do if mentor tells her/him to try for “lesser” postdoc position or permanent position (especially vs. a comparable male student)?

Cathy Fuller

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Alabama, Birmingham

First, you have to do a realistic appraisal of your own skills, abilities and accomplishments. Is your publication record as good as the other person’s? What about awards, individual grants (e.g., NRSAs, trainee awards such as tum Suden fellowships, etc.)? Do your interests and skills match with those of the prospective PI/new department?

If your basic qualifications are comparable, then look at the position itself and ask yourself why this particular job is important to you. Do you want to work in this lab because the PI is a current “hot-shot” or do you really want to contribute to the research? Check out the PI as well. Many “stars” may have hectic travel and administrative schedules that will preclude them for having much interaction with you. If you are an individual who likes to build a close relationship with a mentor, a “hot” lab may not be right for you. How many post-docs/students does the PI currently have working in the lab? Do they have individual projects or are multiple post-docs working on a single project? This latter situation can result in a brutal working environment. When choosing a lab for a post-doc position, consider the record of the mentor – not just in terms of the number of publications (and not just those in Nature or Science!), but also in terms of what previous post-docs in that laboratory have achieved. Do they have independent faculty positions or are they working in other fields (e.g., science policy, administration etc)? Or are they out of science all together? Ask yourself where you want to be in 5- to 10-years time – in a tenured academic position at a major university, teaching at a junior college, working in industry or working in administration? How well do your goals match with those of the prospective mentor?

If possible, ask your current mentor why your colleague was recommended for this new opportunity and you were not. This is a very difficult question to ask, and whether or not you ask it will depend largely on your relationship with your PI. Also, of course, if you do ask the question, you run the risk of being given an answer you might not like! Your current mentor may not have recommended you for the position for any number of reasons, ranging from a genuine concern that this particular job would not be right for you (perhaps based on inappropriate concerns, such as the ability to look after your children while working in a demanding laboratory environment – such an issue should not factor in to a recommendation for a position) to simple old-fashioned prejudice. If your mentor has a real concern about your abilities, then you have a right to know where any deficiencies may lie so that they can be corrected. If you are reluctant to discuss this issue with your current mentor, an alternative might be to talk to another faculty member (perhaps someone on your Ph.D. committee who is familiar with your work) who can give you an unbiased opinion of your abilities and suitability for this position.

The situation is slightly different if you are applying for that first job. Assuming that publication records, skills and abilities are more or less equivalent between yourself and your colleague, then you have to ask your PI the basis for the different recommendations. The PI may know about some aspects of the new department that you do not or, as above, may have concerns that the opportunity may not be right for you. Again, ask another faculty member (perhaps a co-author on a paper who has worked with you or a potential writer of a letter of reference) for their honest opinion. Even if your PI’s letter of reference is less than fully supportive of your application, search committees will also look at your achievements to date as given on your CV and your other letters of reference, as well as your own cover letter.

If, after all of these steps, you think the position is right for you then go for it!!! After all, if you don’t apply, you will never get the job!

Kim Barrett

Former APS Councillor
Chair, APS Publications Committee
Dean of Graduate Studies, University of California, San Diego

The simple answer to this is to ignore the mentor and apply for whatever position in which the student is interested. There are all sorts of tangible and intangible factors that enter into why a particular candidate is selected for a particular position, including (but not limited to) scientific fit, personality, teaching abilities, a desire to initiate a particular area of research in the department, spousal hiring issues, etc. I would not advise a student to "call" their mentor on any such perceived behavior, because securing a letter of recommendation may be key. If the student is invited to interview for a position for which the mentor did not initially believe they were competitive, few would then turn down a request for a reference.

However, this question also raises the issue of a hierarchy of post-doc opportunities and other positions that may be inappropriate. The best position for any given student is the one that fits best with his/her short and longer term career goals. Thus, it might be appropriate to take a post-doc at a "lesser" school if this would also offer opportunities for significant exposure to teaching, if the student's ultimate goal is to secure a position that focuses on teaching more prominently than research. Such opportunities may not readily be available in a high-pressured research environment. At the end of the day, it should be the student rather than the mentor that defines what success looks like.

Irving Zucker

APS President-Elect
Former APS Councillor
Department Chair, University of Nebraska

While graduate students tend to try to comply with everything their mentor tells them, they should not compromise their standards if it appears the advice is gender based. The student needs to be careful that the mentor’s advice is not based on his/her assessment of the student’s ability. If the student believes she is as capable and qualified as any other student in the lab, she should pursue her career choice despite the recommendation of the mentor. Of course the problem to be concerned about is that the recommendation letter from the mentor many not be as strong should the student chose a course of action in contrast to the mentor's wishes.

The best course of action is to have a candid discussion with the mentor to clarify the issues of quality and competence based on rational guidelines and rules. Back to top

Q: How would you suggest trainees who have trouble dealing with critical comments on their science or writing learn to handle it better?

Carole Liedtke

Former APS Councillor
Former Chair, Women in Physiology Committee
Case Western Reserve University

First, look at the critical comments because some individuals are just always critical. From the remaining comments, ask what the critical comments mean to and about the trainee – is the trainee taking the remark personally? Encourage the trainee to become more objective and not read anything personal into the comments.

Marshall Montrose

Editor-in-Chief, AJP: Gastrointestinal and Liver Physiology
Department Chair, University of Cincinnati

If it is emotional trouble, the answer is simply to recognize that you have an opportunity to grow from helpful criticism, not take it personally, and start moving forward.

If instead it is an inability to know what to do or to improve in a vacuum, the only thing to do is to seek help from others. Laboratory science is learned as an apprenticeship and not all mentors do equally well at teaching the basics of scientific logic or scientific style for prose. Seek multiple mentors, and benefit from multiple strengths.

Adrienne Zion

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
MedCon (Medical Education Consultants)

Look hard at the comments in an objective way; decipher whether the suggestions have merit. If possible, seek another opinion from an individual with whom you trust and who is knowledgeable about the area. Describe the overall research and/or writing issue concisely. Sometimes emotions and defenses limit accepting another perspective. If the criticism has merit, adapt. If not, try to take the road of least resistance, particularly if this writing assignment is crucial to completing an important career milestone.

Dee Silverthorn

APS Councillor
Editor-in-Chief, Advances in Physiology Education
University of Texas, Austin

Talk to someone! No one likes to be criticized or hear that they need improvement, especially when they've tried their best. You need an impartial person to look at the comments and at what's being criticized to see if the comments are fair. Sometimes they're not. Also, try to forestall the criticism by having a colleague or mentor read your writing before you submit it.

My first grant application was turned down (it was for a new program) and I was crushed. I almost waited too late but a few weeks before the next deadline I got up my nerve and called the program director. He was wonderful -- told me a better program for my grant and told me exactly what items I needed to address before I resubmitted. I scrambled to get the revised proposal in and was funded. That's when I learned to talk to someone.

Barb Goodman

APS Councillor
Former Chair, APS Education Committee
University of South Dakota

The best way to deal with critical comments on science is to participate in numerous journal clubs and small-group lab meetings while in training so that criticisms can be approached from a casual and supportive point of view first. The best way to deal with critical comments on writing is to be involved in numerous opportunities for peer review throughout one’s training. Once one has done review for someone else’s paper it is easier to see how changes might be necessary in one’s own writing style. Back to top

Q: How should a female trainee handle being treated deferentially during lab meetings, e.g., rigorous questioning for men vs. “soft” questions for women?

Barbara Alexander

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Mississippi

I have been very fortunate in my science career at all levels (student, post-doc, and faculty) to be a member of a laboratory or department that is ‘gender’ blind. Not all opportunities and decisions have been in my favor, but I have never perceived that unfavorable or ‘unfair’ decisions were the result of my female gender. Rule: Life is not fair. However, Motto: Perseverance and hard work will eventually work in your favor.

Kim Barrett

Former APS Councillor
Chair, APS Publications Committee
Dean of Graduate Studies, University of California, San Diego

I haven’t seen too much of this, if any, in 20 plus years of academic research. But one strategy might be to ask one’s own tough questions of the male trainees. People will soon respond in kind.

Colleen Cosgrove Hegg

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
Michigan State University

The best thing to do in general is to establish a relationship with the PI that would allow the trainee to talk openly about these issues. I also think it is very important to talk directly to the PI very soon after an incident occurs. It may be that the PI doesn’t recognize that there is a gender difference, so it is important to approach the subject by stating how you feel, rather than being accusatory. It also helps if you ask for a specific change to occur. If the trainee feels like hired help, one potential solution would be for the trainee to ask if she could submit a list of experiments she plans on doing for the week. The PI could then review and discuss any changes with the experimental plan, thus making the project more collaborative.

Carole Liedtke

Former APS Councillor
Former Chair, Women in Physiology Committee
Case Western Reserve University

The situation is very awkward because the female trainee is treated like this in front of the entire laboratory staff. Ultimately, the trainee must talk to the PI/supervisor/advisor directly about the situation, but be prepared. Request an appointment with the PI several days in advance and then practice how the topic and what will be discussed. The trainee can explain how this affects her ability to develop as a scientist and how this appears to others in the laboratory. Listen carefully to the PI’s response and avoid emotional reactions; this can happen to either women or men, just be aware of your reaction. Be prepared to offer suggestions on how to change the behavior at the lab meetings. For example, change the order of presentations/discussion if this appears to be a problem. Another example would be for the trainee to prepare overheads in advance to review with the PI.

In addition to the PI, the trainee might talk to more senior members of the laboratory, e.g., research associate, post-doc, or other employee, and ask them for suggestions on how to handle the problem. They will be a great resource because they may have worked with the PI longer and have a good perspective on why and how the PI treats others. For example, is the trainee new to the lab (<1 year)? Use these discussions to develop an action plan for yourself and prepare for a meeting with the PI. Also, set a goal to achieve support for yourself from the laboratory staff based on a positive foundation; do not complain or whine. This will get you nowhere.

Barb Goodman

APS Councillor
Former Chair, APS Education Committee
University of South Dakota

The woman should volunteer to answer the tough questions and should get involved in discussions that demonstrate knowledge and understanding of the scientific principles. The woman can help to lead/create discussions in the tough areas.

Jane Reckelhoff

Incoming Chair, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Mississippi

I have never had this difficulty. I have always given my point of view regarding scientific discussions provided I knew what I was talking about!! I didn’t wait to be “called upon.” Whether male or female, a trainee or young faculty member should add their viewpoints during a scientific discussion respectfully but with conviction regardless of whether their opinions have been solicited or not. A discussion with the mentor prior to the lab meeting as to his/her expectations of the trainee could also alleviate some of this. Back to top

Q: What would be the best way for a female trainee to deal with being treated differently from the male trainees in the lab – e.g., as a daughter or hired help?

Barb Goodman

APS Councillor
Former Chair, APS Education Committee
University of South Dakota

The woman should be creative and assertive in making the laboratory run more efficiently and in improving the scientific progress. If the woman plans ahead and has everything organized and ready to go, she will eventually stand out as the go-to person when one wants something done.

Carole Liedtke

Former APS Councillor
Former Chair, Women in Physiology Committee
Case Western Reserve University

This situation is similar to being ignored – it is nice having you here but you are not really doing meaningful research. Start out each day with a written list of what you want to accomplish that day (do this for each week, too) – I received this suggestion from a PhD research associate who become invaluable to his lab. Put this list at your desk and check off each item when completed. Something not finished is at the top of the list next day. Why do this?: meet with your PI and discuss what you are doing (from the daily/weekly list), what you have accomplished and progress in your research project. The list will illustrate your commitment to goal-oriented research and also track your progress to independent papers, etc. Do not complain about the way you are treated, as this gets you nowhere. Be proactive (see Question 3 above). Back to top

Q: Is it important for female trainees to have female as well as male mentors?

Cathy Fuller

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Alabama, Birmingham

I don’t think that the gender of the mentor is critical. What is important is that the mentor should be concerned with developing an individual who exhibits critical thinking and creativity and who can work independently. The best mentors are concerned with the future careers of the post-docs and students who work for them, understanding that the professional successes of these individuals reflect back on the mentor. I personally have worked for both male and female PIs, and I think on the whole the men I worked with were better mentors. However, in some disciplines where women are under-represented, it is helpful for female trainees to at least have access to these individuals so that they are aware of what can be accomplished by women, sometimes even in the face of many professional obstacles.

Dee Silverthorn

APS Councillor
Editor-in-Chief, Advances in Physiology Education
University of Texas, Austin

I think it is, although I did not have any female mentors until later in my career. But choose carefully...the "Queen Bee" syndrome is not a myth. If a young woman is hoping to juggle family and career, having a female mentor who has done it can be a huge help.

Adrienne Zion

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
MedCon (Medical Education Consultants)

In my opinion, it’s important for women trainees to see successful women. Engage women leaders in a dialogue or through a collaborative effort. Listening to how they have achieved they maneuvered the system may be more useful than forcing a mentor/mentee relationship. Since women have different interpersonal skills than men, from team building, to listening better, etc, having both men and women mentors helps.

Colleen Cosgrove Hegg

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
Michigan State University

It is important for any trainee to have good mentors, regardless of gender. You want to choose a mentor that is your cheerleader and that has your best interests in mind. I think having more than 1 mentor is also a good idea, as different people have different perspectives, and strengths.

Barbara Alexander

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Mississippi

Of course! Although male mentors can provide excellent support and mentoring, input from female mentors can serve as reinforcement for women who are try ing to balance family and career. Although in a perfect world men would contribute equally to child and home care duties, this is not always the case. Many women are married to men in science; thus, input from other female scientists who are balancing marriage, parenting, and a science career is critical. Likewise, for those married to a nonscientist, input is just as critical, since science is a career that at some times can seem like a “mistress” to those not part of the scientist “lifestyle.” Back to top

Q: How does someone identify a good mentor?

Greg Florant

Chair, Porter Physiology Development Committee
Colorado State University

By talking with the person; by talking with their students and colleagues; by talking with their past students who have graduated, etc. When I say “talk” I mean you must ask the hard questions like: How does this mentor support you—financially and mentally? Does this mentor work with you or tell you what to do? What is their personality like, and can you work with them?

Adrienne Zion

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
MedCon (Medical Education Consultants)

I have had experience in both formalized mentoring programs and traditional mentoring programs. Formal programs are structured and can offer good advice based on stepwise goals and objectives. Some match candidates with similar interests. They are a good way to learn how to navigate a specific system or working environment.

My best mentors have been teachers who inspired me with their teaching style, personality and knowledge. Often, these same teachers I was interested in had taken an interest in me and my work and I was therefore able to bounce ideas back and forth. Those mentors ended up becoming good friends whom I’ve continued ongoing an relationships, beyond the lab. Engage the individual in a conversation and determine whether there is opportunity for a professional relationship. One can never have too many academic or professional champions.

Barbara Alexander

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Mississippi

Mentors are important at all levels of your career. A good mentor is identified over time. A good mentor is someone who is willing to take the time to invest in your career.

For graduate students your advisor may not always serve as your primary “career” mentor. Sometimes other faculty members may serve as your source of guidance.

For junior faculty a good mentor is someone who has provided advice in navigating the pathway of manuscript acceptance and funding, including critiques of manuscripts and grants in ways that have contributed to your success. Although you may not follow all advice provided by a mentor, a good mentor will continue to provide support even when you may not follow their suggestions.

In addition, you may find you have different mentors for different aspects of your scientific career. In turn, when you find yourself serving as a mentor to someone, whether it is to a summer student, new graduate student, or post-doctoral fellow in your own laboratory, remember how important your mentors have been to you.

Mentoring in science is a continual and important part of a science career, both as a recipient, and as a provider. Back to top

Q: How important is networking for trainees and scientists? Is it especially important for women scientists?

Greg Florant

Chair, Porter Physiology Development Committee
Colorado State University

Networking is extremely important. People want to associate a name with a paper or research area. This helps both groups to get to know each other and to talk about issues in a more friendly atmosphere.

Cathy Fuller

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Alabama, Birmingham

Networking is important and is hard to do, especially for women. A good mentor will introduce their student/post-doc to their own friends and colleagues, so that the trainee can start to build a circle of contacts. Attending meetings to present your work is also important – most people do not have the opportunity to present their work orally at meetings, particularly large meetings such as EB. Thus the poster sessions are important and are an ideal opportunity to talk about your work. When people attend your poster and ask questions, try to remember their names, where they are from and what they do. Similarly, visit the posters from laboratories doing work in the same field as your own and try to get to know the post-docs and graduate students in the other labs. Some of the best opportunities for networking come in small meetings (e.g., FASEB Summer Conferences, Gordon Conferences, Keystone Symposia). These meetings will let you interact with just 100 – 200 people in less formal setting than the big international meetings. If necessary, force yourself to go to the social events that are often organized around meetings. A surprising amount of science is talked over a beer in the hotel bar – having a room-service dinner in the conference hotel is not a good way to meet people!

Colleen Cosgrove Hegg

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
Michigan State University

Networking is important for any field, for any gender, and for any stage in one’s career. I have called upon what I call “the young girl’s network” for finding references for post-docs and employees. But I have also benefited from the old boy’s club as well.

Dee Silverthorn

APS Councillor
Editor-in-Chief, Advances in Physiology Education
University of Texas, Austin

Networking makes the science world run. If you establish networks early, it will open doors to opportunities about which you might not even know. It's also helpful to have a network of colleagues outside your home institution in case you have problems within your institution One of the best ways to widen your network is to become active in the APS through your section or by volunteering for a committee.

One of my colleagues was denied tenure the first time around because he did not have enough "national activities" on his resume. I was able to use my networks to help him give seminars at several out-of-state schools, and he was granted tenure on his reapplication.

Adrienne Zion

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
MedCon (Medical Education Consultants)

Very important. While at an academic institution I felt isolated being the only woman researcher in my immediate department. There was gender bias and it was difficult to get beyond this. Reaching out to other female researchers helped to some degree, but only when I moved areas of research was this resolved. Back to top

Q: When should the issue of dual-career couples be broached and/or discussed during the job interview and hiring process?

Marshall Montrose

Editor-in-Chief, AJP: Gastrointestinal and Liver Physiology
Department Chair, University of Cincinnati

As early as possible. Meeting the needs of one person takes considerable thought and resources; meeting the needs of two is more than twice as difficult very often.

Jane Reckelhoff

Incoming Chair, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Mississippi

If the couple wants to have jobs at the same institution, the issue should come up immediately when called for an interview, because if a chair is very interested in a faculty candidate, he/she is often able to arrange a position for the accompanying spouse. If the couple is not seeking to be in the same institution, company or city, the issue never needs to be raised. Problems may arise if the members of the couple are at different levels in their careers or are in very different fields. For example, if one of the members of the couple is an environmental engineer and the other is a basic physiologist, the likelihood of both getting hired at a medical center is low. Therefore, the couple needs to have realistic expectations. They should also agree before the interview process, if necessary, how far and for how long they will be willing to live apart. Considerations of children, present or future, etc. should be included in these discussions.

Carole Liedtke

Former APS Councillor
Former Chair, Women in Physiology Committee
Case Western Reserve University

The first job interview is a good time for the applicant and others to look each other over for compatibility, etc. If a second interview is requested, either in person or by teleconference, then dual-career issues should be brought up, particularly if the spouse has an invitation for a job interview at the same institution/company.

Irving Zucker

APS President-Elect
Former APS Councillor
Department Chair, University of Nebraska

The first thing that one should be concerned about is securing the job that was advertised or is primarily being recruited for. If the employer is enthusiastic about the initial hire, then the discussion should turn to the spouse. In many instances this really depends on the resources available for dual recruitment. Like anything else, some negotiation and compromise may be necessary. I certainly would not wait until after the second visit to bring this issue to the forefront. Back to top

Q: Do women negotiate positions and hiring packages differently than men?
If so, what are the pros and cons to their approach? Should they do anything differently?

Barb Goodman

APS Councillor
Former Chair, APS Education Committee
University of South Dakota

From my experience, women have a tendency to just accept what is being offered and not question it. Women should have data with them about how much the average person in that position is getting and mention that knowledge in the negotiations process. The woman should never let anyone assume that her career is any less important than a man’s career.

The woman is likely to be more flexible in accepting alternative negotiations. I once let the fact that I was covered under my husband’s benefits seal the deal for a raise that I was negotiating.

Knowledge of what equivalent individuals in that same position are/should be making is now available and should be part of the knowledge base of the woman.

Marshall Montrose

Editor-in-Chief, AJP: Gastrointestinal and Liver Physiology
Department Chair, University of Cincinnati

I have not seen any difference (based on 4 women and 2 men in my personal experience as a chair).

Irving Zucker

APS President-Elect
Former APS Councillor
Department Chair, University of Nebraska

In my opinion, the negotiation should be exactly the same. It would be advisable for the candidate to obtain data on hiring salaries and set-up packages over the past 4-5 years based on gender. This information may be difficult to come by but asking the employer is not a bad start. If there are child-care issues involved, then there needs to be a clear plan of how time will be divided and what is expected of the candidate. This relates to issues such as tenure, etc.

Kim Barrett

Former APS Councillor
Chair, APS Publications Committee
Dean of Graduate Studies, University of California, San Diego

I believe there is a considerable body of research that suggests that women’s negotiating styles have considerable differences from those of men. The biggest problem, as I see it, is that women fail to negotiate at all, feeling lucky to have been offered anything. Everything is negotiable, particularly at the stage when one is approaching a new professional position. Once you are established at an institution it is hard to negotiate for anything further, unless you have an outside offer. Women may also have external barriers to driving a hard bargain and being willing to walk away from the table, such as a spouse or partner who is unable or unwilling to move. Indeed, there is pressure currently for many universities to offer “pre-emptive retentions,” freeing successful women from the need to secure outside offers to move ahead and recognizing the gender inequity that this otherwise entails. On the positive side, it is my impression (not backed up by data) that women negotiate (when they do) more “holistically” than men and with a greater desire to reach a position that represents a “win” for both sides. Women often have great loyalty to institutions for which they work and an ability to contribute to the greater good. Eventually, this does get recognized in most places, although it may take some considerable time.

The key to negotiations overall is to think through the items that are essential, desirable, and dispensable before setting out and not to compromise on the first category. Every meeting and conversation should have a clearly stated agenda that frames the discussion up front. One should also try to get everything in writing to avoid later problems, particularly if there is a change in leadership (sadly, not uncommon). Even if the person with whom you are negotiating doesn’t want to write things down, you can write up a memo after each meeting or phone conversation to the effect “Thanks for meeting/talking with me. Here are the items that I believe we agreed to (A,B,C). Please let me know if this does not align with your recollection, otherwise I will assume that we are in agreement.”

Finally, knowledge is power. There are many sources from which one can learn representative salaries, for example, as well as typical recruitment packages. Back to top

Q: What should a woman do if she thinks she is being overlooked for promotion opportunities or preferred committee assignments?

Irving Zucker

APS President-Elect
Former APS Councillor
Department Chair, University of Nebraska

A serious discussion with her chair is necessary. The chair must show her concrete evidence of differences in her academic record compared with those of males at a similar rank. It is also necessary for the chair to indicate what she needs to do in order to be nominated for a promotion. For committee assignments it is difficult to prove gender bias because the chair can always say he/she just thinks that so-and-so will do a better job. However, if there is a history of always placing males on a committee when there are qualified females available, the next step would be an appeal to the Dean. Most institutions are sensitive to gender equity and would be responsive to this appeal. The trick is doing this without offending the chair.

Barbara Alexander

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Mississippi

A woman should do the same as any other scientist; first, try to determine why you were overlooked. Is it due to a deficiency in your eligibility or due to someone else’s better qualifications? Second, speak with your “mentor(s)” to aid in your own critique. Then, work hard to strengthen your CV or eligibility.

Jane Reckelhoff

Incoming Chair, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Mississippi

As far as committee assignments, she could volunteer for them. Many committees have difficulty getting members. However, many young women are bogged down by committee work when they need to be concerned with their career goals. This is often the case when the committee needs a “token” woman. It is not likely that committee work will make or break her career unless she needs some evidence of committee work for promotion. With the exception of NIH or American Heart grant study sections which are very educational, I would recommend that young faculty not take on any additional work beyond their teaching requirements until their careers are well advanced unless required to do so. I would recommend that for any young investigator, male or female.

Let me say I have no experience with industry positions. I don’t know if there are written guidelines that are in place for promotion. I have the feeling that promotion guidelines are not written and are much more arbitrary in industry than in academics. I may be wrong, however. With this said, if a woman is in industry, and she feels she is being passed over for promotion, she should leave and find another job. I realize that this is not laudable. It would be more laudable to fight for a promotion, go above her boss, and eventually file a lawsuit provided that she could prove discrimination. This would be laudable, but it would be professional suicide. She would never be hired again in a similar industry position. That is why I say, get another job.

If she is working at an academic institution, she should determine as soon as she is hired what she must do to get to the next promotional level. There should be written guidelines. She should discuss her expectations every time she has a faculty evaluation with her chair. She must make sure she is doing everything she can to obtain funding, write papers, etc.; whatever is necessary to be promoted. She should be honest with her chair regarding her expectations about the time frame for promotion. If she doesn’t get promoted in the same time frame as others and if she believes her qualifications are similar to those getting promoted, she should discuss this candidly with her chair. It is possible that the chair has a plan for her promotion. If this is not the case, she should consider leaving the institution. If she is very qualified, with grants and publications, she will not have a difficult time getting another job. I would recommend this for both men and women, but men don’t tend to stay where they are not being appreciated.

Adrienne Zion

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
MedCon (Medical Education Consultants)

Difficult question. Once a woman expresses concern regarding gender bias, it seems to be accentuated. Again, seek out of the department collaborations. Become friendly with chairs of other departments.

Greg Florant

Chair, Porter Physiology Development Committee
Colorado State University

Get your facts and data in order. Go to the Chair of the Department first and then if not satisfied, go to the Dean, etc.. However, the answer to this question is in ALL University Faculty Handbooks---which, of course, the scientist should have read!! There are specific proceedures to follow.

Carole Liedtke

Former APS Councillor
Former Chair, Women in Physiology Committee
Case Western Reserve University

Talk to your immediate supervisor, but be prepared! There may actually be a reason for a delay in some desirable opportunities, so listen carefully. Develop a plan to discuss with your supervisor: what you have accomplished that makes you a candidate for promotion or committee service, what you think you need to do, and a timeline for accomplishing these goals. For committee assignments, do you have enough background or experience? Seek committees less prestigious – do a spectacular job (which can be documented) – keep repeating this cycle so that your own professional development becomes evident. Or, just simply request a committee assignment but be prepared for hearing that you will not get the assignment and why not.

Barb Goodman

APS Councillor
Former Chair, APS Education Committee
University of South Dakota

The woman should volunteer for positions that would allow her to show that she is capable of working on committees. Once she has a reputation for good work and follow-through, more positions will be offered to her in the future. She may need to prove herself before she moves up the ladder. Usually willingness to work and completing tasks responsibly are all that is needed.

Cathy Fuller

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Alabama, Birmingham

This is one of the more difficult issues with which to deal. Most departments will have a “Guidelines for Promotion and Tenure” document, which should be the first thing the faculty member should look at to determine the basic requirements for advancement. Ideally the issue of possible promotion should be discussed with the Chair in the year prior to the promotion, so that the Chair can outline the requirements/expectations of the faculty member for promotion. If annual meetings between the Chair and the faculty member do not take place, the faculty member should make a formal appointment to discuss the issue. However, promotion is rarely based purely on fulfilling a laundry list of requirements. The Chair will also take into account research progress; ability of the faculty member to interact positively with students, post-docs and colleagues; stability of extra-mural funding; willingness to teach; and teaching evaluations among others. Things that should not be considered are family leave and daily time management; if the faculty member is available to meet with students and post-docs and can fulfill teaching and committee obligations, it should not matter if she arrives at 5 am so that she can pick her children up from day care at 3 pm. If the faculty member thinks she qualifies for promotion, and her Chair is not willing to promote her, then one possibility might be to discuss this with the departmental promotions and tenure committee or, if this is not an option, to talk to the Dean.

Marshall Montrose

Editor-in-Chief, AJP: Gastrointestinal and Liver Physiology
Department Chair, University of Cincinnati

Tough one, because you need to get from impression to fact first. Ask yourself first if you have overtly requested to serve in those positions and how often such possibilities have arisen? Is there one person who makes these decisions or is this the outcome from several choice makers? Have you explored other possibilities that could be equally satisfying or is there a reason that this subset of opportunities is essential to advancement? If none of these answers is favorable, you will have to address this with your chair. If the chair is the problem, you will need to seek advice from senior colleagues in the department who might help you seek counsel from another chair. I prefer this method to going directly to the Dean, because I think working with a departmental chair peer could be more effective long term. Back to top

Q: How should women deal with wanting to “stop the clock” on tenure decisions?

Carole Liedtke

Former APS Councillor
Former Chair, Women in Physiology Committee
Case Western Reserve University

As soon as possible at a new job, get a copy of the institution’s policy and read it carefully. Get answers to your questions from appropriate sources: faculty senate committee (e.g., Faculty Personnel), Provost Office, etc. A discussion with appropriate departmental administrators is necessary because the “stop the clock” may involve time off that must be covered by other faculty teaching your courses, advising your students, etc. Make certain you know how to get back “onto the clock.” What is expected of you after returning?

One approach: request a change in faculty responsibility for relief from all administrative (committee) work, come into the office/lab 3 days a week, continue research and advising of graduate students, communicate with lab via video, see if you have time to teach one course or to participate in teaching.

Irving Zucker

APS President-Elect
Former APS Councillor
Department Chair, University of Nebraska

At many institutions the clock is stopped for several years in order for female faculty members to tend to young children. I believe it is reasonable to make this accommodation. In institutions where this is not policy, a discussion with the Chair should take place to determine if this is possible. Potential female faculty of child-bearing age should certainly take this into consideration when choosing an institution for which to work. On the other hand, more female faculty are enlisting the help of their spouse or partner for child care. So if an equitable plan can be worked out within the tenure guidelines, that would, in my opinion, be preferable.

Marshall Montrose

Editor-in-Chief, AJP: Gastrointestinal and Liver Physiology
Department Chair, University of Cincinnati

I think this is a fine choice. Right now, especially, the usual tenure clock is very hard to cope with because it may take a long time to even get the first grant, much less two if that is what your university requires/desires for promotion or tenure. It’s an advantage, use it. I suggest that women taking that time off still stay in the loop as much as they are comfortable with so that they actually gain ground while the clock is stopped. Back to top

Q: Who is/are the best people to look to for support as a new investigator, e.g., chair, dean, senior colleagues?

Irving Zucker

APS President-Elect
Former APS Councillor
Department Chair, University of Nebraska

All of the above. My order of priority would be senior colleagues > Chair > Dean. It's a really good idea to identify a senior female faculty member, especially one that has a track record for mentoring. Meet regularly with her and discuss issues related to career enhancement, especially those that are gender sensitive. If the department chair recruited you, he/she can be an ally and interface between you and the Dean.

Cathy Fuller

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Alabama, Birmingham

Hopefully the Chair and senior colleagues will be supportive – after all, these are the people who hired you! The Dean is probably not an appropriate individual to look to for support unless under exceptional circumstances – he/she will leave all daily decisions regarding the well-being of new faculty members to the Chair and the department. You should also not overlook other junior faculty members, even those in other departments. It may even be possible to set up an inter-departmental group made up of individuals appointed within the previous two to three years– there is a lot to be said for sharing common experiences and problems that will be faced by all new departmental appointees.

Marshall Montrose

Editor-in-Chief, AJP: Gastrointestinal and Liver Physiology
Department Chair, University of Cincinnati

New investigators need to make themselves valuable in their home department. Support comes from within the department usually. Senior colleagues can help advise and direct them, but the chair is who will be relaying his/her impression to the Dean that makes those important tenure decisions.

Barbara Alexander

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Mississippi

Senior colleagues are an excellent source of support for new investigators. I have found that, although my chair is more than willing to provide input into my research and career, senior faculty have more time for “hands on” discussion and face-to-face commitment. My department has a mentoring committee composed of senior and junior faculty. We routinely meet to discuss each others’ research ideas and grant applications; mentoring is for both junior and senior faculty. Thus, not only do junior faculty members receive guidance from established investigators, but they also have the opportunity to read and critique grant applications of established investigators.

Carole Liedtke

Former APS Councillor
Former Chair, Women in Physiology Committee
Case Western Reserve University

Some departments appoint a mentoring committee of three faculty, with one outside the department, to guide the new investigator. Without this formal structure, ask the department chair for suggestions. The chair or other faculty might suggest others who share similar research interests or teaching expertise.

Adrienne Zion

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
MedCon (Medical Education Consultants)

Teachers, collaborators, other supporters. Back to top

Q: As a mentor-teacher, what is your responsibility to ensure females and males are treated similarly
a. in class
b. in lab assignments and lab meetings
c. at scientific meetings
d. in recommending for grad school, postdocs, permanent positions

Irving Zucker

APS President-Elect
Former APS Councillor
Department Chair, University of Nebraska

In all of the settings indicated above, a mentor-teacher has a responsibility to promote the careers and learning opportunities in a gender-neutral way. Given that in some instances there may not be gender equity, the mentor may want to go out of his/her way to make sure that males and females are treated in the same way. For instance, assignments to committees; pairing students in groups; evaluating applications for positions, etc.

Barb Goodman

APS Councillor
Former Chair, APS Education Committee
University of South Dakota

In class – Each student must be treated as the same capable and intelligent being. I randomly call on my students in groups based on how they sat in class on day one.
In lab assignments and lab meetings – Each student should be responsible to carry out their portion of the research goals and report on them at regular times.
At scientific meetings – If there are restrictions placed on what one can do, what time one needs to be doing something, or what money one can spend from the laboratory coffers, they should be enforced the same for men and women.
In recommending for grad school, postdocs, permanent positions – Mentors should let all candidates know if they will be able to write a good letter of support. Both males and females should be introduced to others in the field by their mentors at scientific meetings.

Dee Silverthorn

APS Councillor
Editor-in-Chief, Advances in Physiology Education
University of Texas, Austin

In class – Men tend to dominate in classroom settings so it is important to make sure you call on women to answer. I had one class where the men were hogging all the discussions so I had to make the next discussion "Ladies' Day." I don't think the men realized they were dominating until I did that, and they were less assertive after that.
c, d. Gender equity is something we need to always be aware of. There are (unfortunately) still some male scientists whose underlying belief is that women don't belong in science. As a mentor, I think it's important for me to let my protégées know who those men are so that the trainees can avoid traps that may be set for them.

Kim Barrett

Former APS Councillor
Chair, APS Publications Committee
Dean of Graduate Studies, University of California, San Diego

One is absolutely obligated always to ensure that men and women are treated equally, assuming equal qualifications/accomplishments. Back to top

Q: What is the best way to deal with being the “token” female in a department or on a committee?

Greg Florant

Chair, Porter Physiology Development Committee
Colorado State University

BE YOURSELF! Express your opinions and make sure that you know what you’re talking about. Speak clearly and concisely. Make clear and rational arguments when stating a particular position. Admit when you’re wrong or have a weak case. Listen carefully to what’s being said before speaking. THINK.

Don’t just let them discuss the “minority” part with you. Be involved in ALL aspects of the decision making process that the committee represents.

Barb Goodman

APS Councillor
Former Chair, APS Education Committee
University of South Dakota

Take advantage of it by showing how efficient and capable you are and not letting anyone treat you any differently. Volunteer to be the leader at times and follow through.

Cathy Fuller

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Alabama, Birmingham

The best way to deal with this is to serve on the committee to the best of your ability, turn up for the meetings, facilitate the work of the committee and complete any relevant tasks. If it is a committee that requires outside expertise or ad hoc members, you can suggest qualified women for those positions. If it is a search committee for a new chair or faculty member, contact any qualified women you know and encourage them to apply for the position. Make sure that your voice is heard by making logical suggestions and creative ideas, but at the same time don’t be afraid to speak your mind. Come to the meetings well prepared, having read any supporting documentation that was provided prior to the meeting. In other words try to be the most effective committee member possible. It may be that you are not a token member but one of a small group of people qualified to sit on the committee. However, if tokenism seems to be a pattern at your institution or in your department, I would raise the issue with Office of Diversity and Equity and/or with the faculty women’s group if one exists.

Colleen Cosgrove Hegg

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
Michigan State University

The best way is to do the best job you can as a committee member or faculty member and to promote other women when at all possible.

Carole Liedtke

Former APS Councillor
Former Chair,Women in Physiology Committee
Case Western Reserve University

What an impact you can have if you remain objective, professional, and non-critical of others and issues. Agree to a work load that is suitable for you now – you can always do more in the future after you have learned the “ropes’” and have shown you can work with others on committee projects. You will be asked to suggest others for the committee so be prepared with a short list of names – do not focus only on minorities or women but who is best for the job and will do the work. Back to top

Q: How does a woman find a balance between being firm and standing her ground vs. being seen as aggressive or hostile?

Cathy Fuller

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Alabama, Birmingham

Do not lose your temper in discussions, make logical suggestions, be prepared to compromise, think before you speak and if there is a real problem, wait one day before dealing with it. Make sure that any statements you make are justified and well reasoned; try not to discuss an issue in the heat of the moment. However, if you are convinced you are correct, don’t give in – try to explain your point of view calmly (even if everyone around you is ranting and raving). Try to make sure you know all the facts before entering into a difficult or delicate discussion. Don’t automatically buy in to the majority view – make sure you make up your own mind.

Barb Goodman

APS Councillor
Former Chair, APS Education Committee
University of South Dakota

I think that one needs to know what is being done with others and to require that the same is being done with women. About two weeks before my son was due, I told my postdoc mentor what my leave plans were as he had never asked me. I did not give him a chance to criticize my plans.

Colleen Cosgrove Hegg

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
Michigan State University

I wouldn’t worry about that perception. Be who you are; don’t change your opinions or beliefs; do what you think is right.

Dee Silverthorn

APS Councillor
Editor-in-Chief, Advances in Physiology Education
University of Texas, Austin

Smile, don't be defensive, and have a sound and logical argument ready to back up your stand.

Adrienne Zion

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
MedCon (Medical Education Consultants)

That is unfortunately a bias women still face. Men are allowed to be aggressive while the same trait(s) in women are seen as pushy and overly assertive. When I firmly believe in my position, I present the facts and discuss the merit of the project and my personal passion towards maintaining a view to keep it intact. While it’s tempting to take a hard stand and not yield too much ground, the successful individual is one that understands compromise. As the Chinese proverb says (to paraphrase), it is the flexible reed that does not brake in the windstorm.

Kim Barrett

Former APS Councillor
Chair, APS Publications Committee
Dean of Graduate Studies, University of California, San Diego

This is something to which everyone needs to develop their own approach. It can be very helpful to accumulate a cadre of trusted peers, both men and women, who are willing to be brutally honest about how one’s behavior is perceived. Formal workshops on assertiveness, speaking up, being heard, personnel management, etc., can also be very useful in getting the balance right. These should include role playing in specific situations, e.g., interviews, negotiating, resolving lab disputes, etc. One can also take a step back and ask “Would I want to be on the receiving end of these comments? Are they constructive rather than unnecessarily critical?” The bottom line is that as a woman one is always vulnerable to being perceived as aggressive when exhibiting behavior that would simply be labeled assertive in a man. You do need to develop something of a thick skin no matter what if you want to succeed. Back to top

Q: How should new investigators handle offers to serve on committees and advisory boards (both local and national)?

Marshall Montrose

Editor-in-Chief, AJP: Gastrointestinal and Liver Physiology
Department Chair, University of Cincinnati

First year, have a maximum of only one commitment inside and outside the department. You need to get to know the lay of the land and get your feet (and lab) under you. After that you can start building (slowly) in the areas that interest you. Try to find opportunities that will get you exposure to those in your field (national committee or organizing a symposium is better than the college IT committee). Do not serve on any committee that meets monthly…they suck the life out of you.

Colleen Cosgrove Hegg

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
Michigan State University

I think that new investigators should be careful in selecting on which committees to serve. Consult with your mentors and your chair, and don’t be afraid to say no.

Cathy Fuller

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Alabama, Birmingham

New investigators should have some protected time for research and the most arduous committee assignments are usually left for more senior investigators with established programs. However, committee work is a part of being a faculty member, but you must be careful not to be exploited. If you say yes to everything you may find yourself on every committee with no time for your own work. New faculty members should consider serving on a limited number of graduate student committees and maybe a departmental committee and that should be about all for the first 1-3 years of the appointment.

Barbara Alexander

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Mississippi

Once funding is established, membership on committees and study sections is critical. Not only is it critical for your own career advancement towards tenure and promotion, it provides an excellent opportunity to meet scientists from other universities and in other disciplines. Serving on study sections is also critical as it provides insight into the funding process.

Dee Silverthorn

APS Councillor
Editor-in-Chief, Advances in Physiology Education
University of Texas, Austin

Time management is always an issue. Promotion and tenure committees look at your service locally and nationally. This is where the advice of a mentor within your institution is helpful in terms of selecting which and how many committees on which to serve.

One exception to this rule might be service on study sections. It is unlikely that a brand new faculty member would be asked to serve on an NIH study section, but it is possible that other research organizations may invite you to be either a full member or, more likely, to act as an ad hoc referee. Although grant reviewing can take up a considerable amount of time, most organizations other than the NIH meet maybe once a year, and, as an ad hoc member, it is likely you would receive far fewer grants to review than a full member. Grant reviewing is valuable, not only because it is a community responsibility, but because of the scientific and administrative insights involved and the contacts that can be made between a group of people with similar interests and expertise. Back to top

Q: Additional Comments

Barb Goodman

APS Councillor
Former Chair, APS Education Committee
University of South Dakota

As a strong feminist for a number of years, I have found that “giving it back” in a light-hearted way by letting someone know that it is not acceptable behavior and assuming that they agree with you and will naturally change their behavior works a lot better than attacking someone for unfair treatment. I also act like I know that I am a strong and capable leader.

Barbara Alexander

Member, APS Women in Physiology Committee
University of Mississippi

I think that not all situations are due to ‘”ender inequity’.” I hope this discussion does not imply that young women will encounter a gender bias throughout their scientific career. Although gender bias exists and many women have experienced gender inequity in their career, it is important to remember that the first response to an unfavorable event should not be gender based. Women do face obstacles not experienced by many men; the pull of motherhood and family is strong and science requires significant time and attention. Thus, mentors, in particular other women, can serve as a strong support network for other women trying to balance a scientific career and family. Back to top